The final questions on LU

Answer when ready in full.
1) Is there a ‘me’, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there isn’t. There is no need for a me to live this life. How liberating is that knowing!
What I find is sensations that are connected to the sense of self. I find images. And the me-label comes on top of that, like a grabber. That’s the play of it – and in reality, it can never be. It certainly often draws me back”inside” the familiar me-package – and then, after a while, there is a realization:” oh there I go again – smiles – and there is a rush of energy freed up and a yawn of release: although there exist all kinds of stories about me, stories is all there is.

2) In the experience, is there an experiencer? Is it body that experiences or body is the experienced?
I remember 40 years ago doing shamanic work, and experienced how it was to go into non-human life-forms. Remember the excitement of it now. I always saw it as the me having all these exciting experiences.That made “me” very “real” and special. Now I have seen that there is just experiencing – verb -and that experiences are different from a leaf of grass and from a sheep. Nobody HAS the experiences .Experiences happen to no one. “leaf of grass” and “sheep” are also labels, given by humans and their labeling-practice.
It is a great and wonderful experience each time I remember that the world is NOT centered around a ME.

3) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

I see a tiny baby, exploring body and sensations, movement, experiences, consequences when growing older – conditioning and NO!s and YES!, and I see baby learning to adapt to expectations very fast, learning which behavior attracts love and soft voices and smiles and what creates anger, furred brows, scary faces, violent acts. And on top of this it learns that it is a name – this name belongs to it and makes it different from others, say siblings or the cat. As it grows, it learns to adapt to expectations and hears that it is good or bad – and both is strengthening the belief that it is a someone, a doer, who can do right or wrong things. I see that all the feelings in baby/child as it grows and learns the rules for surviving strengthens the sense of I /specialness/separation – and also its parents and surroundings’ praise or blame/anger/disappointment seems always to be directed to the I/name – so it must be real! I see there is NO openings for doubt in this indoctrination. It is never questioned from authorities that the I is a construct – until we start to study psychology, and learn the basics for constructing a me – but still, nobody tells us that we really don’t exist at all as a separate person – and that this is not OUR body.

Much of this has to do with language of course – of mutual consent of what is real and what is not.

4) How does it feel to see this?
That changes often! Feelings of deep release, simplicity,joy – or right now, where I seem to be caught in a state of dense headache and tiredness, and just accepting it – knowing that it also just an experience, and it can be welcomed or resisted. Sometimes it feels like remembering Home, whatever that may be – like a curtain/veil being removed, and reality exists and is seen as everpresent/everhappening

5)How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

First I would tell them that they could get the best info on Liberation Unleashed – and if they insisted, I would say something like:
I have found that “my” separated self is a fiction.( I would have called it separated self, because so many of us my age has been searching for decades, and many have had experiences of Self /Atman/amness/being, and would not have listened at all if I told them self does not exist.)I would say” I have been guided in a marvelous method and helped to see that dropping the belief that I am this self, life is vastly richer, colorful and peaceful.
And then I would have met them with questions: if they said:”that seems scary to me”, I could ask questions – like “can you find this me somewhere?” If they said yes and pointed to their chest or head, I could ask them to describe the sense of me in the body – and have them check if they are those sensations? And so on.
And noticing the labeling-process could be good and also have them look at how life would be without that me-label – just for a minute – that was a really powerful one for me.

6) a)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Nov 25th, after you (Ilona)asked me to look at an inner voice and check if it was TRUE. I did see that the voice came from denying truth, something inside reacted with wild anger, I felt afraid – and then that was OK too.
So this last night was filled with a feeling of melting, gentleness, cradling, care, no-time. It felt like “my” whole world shifted – and still it was very subtle. At one point something happened in my brain -and a thought came: “before / after. “Quite a shift. It has brought a slight dizziness today.
Today Nov.27th, there is much murkiness and heaviness rising to surface. I have learned to thank it and allow it to leave.
People’s smiles to me these days are heavenly
Today Nov.28th there is much energy being processed, but also a deep trust in the process – and the process of looking/investigating comes more often than before, and is really enjoyed.

7)Can you describe the moment when seeing happened?

There are many of them. Here are some:

The first came when we (Ilona and I)worked together on August 30th – I think it was our first day – you told me that I was a label and invited me to look for myself – and there was a complete turnaround of my world: of course the I was just a label. The me was like a paperdoll, a puppet, something unanimated. Suddenly all doubt was gone: The I is just a label and a thought .I am not a label. A label is NOT real. This is crystal clear. What would I lose if that was gone – meaning my belief that those I- thoughts were important?
Nothing at all. There would be no more drama.There would be clear perception. The world looked completely different in this view – my life looked different. I would be lived. What was needed to be done would be done. No doer. No shoulder and oughter! I rested peacefully and joyfully in this clear perception until I fell asleep – and when I woke up, the old view of a me was back with a vengeance.

Then there was a moment in the first night after the first day on the forum/thread with Chris7 where I had a dream:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1466 October 5th

The dream was pretty much showing how the process was going to be, and helped me trust it and commit to it.

A recent one is 14 days ago, Skyping with Kit from LU – Suddenly a deep and fully resounding laughing happened , and I was so aware that it was not “me” who laughed. There was a seeing that there was someone wise and loving laughing – like an angel – and then that was recognized as a someone/separation too. When the laughing happened, I was looking out on a field from my window -“I” was mesmerized in joy, looking at shadows and colors and skies – it was SO alive and interesting ( don’t find good words in English.)

The last I will mention was reading CosmiK’s suggestion (I think it was him): When you look at that which is looking, what is there?
And there was just this sinking sinking sinking into a vast space – nobody there for sure – and I don’t know if it is called awareness or what it is, but it is neutral and completely devoid of identities and separation

8) anything to add?
Quote:I rested peacefully and joyfully in this clear perception until I fell asleep – and when I woke up, the old view of a me was back with a vengeance.

Chris7 asked me 2-3-times if I was ready for the final questions. I said yes – and then the ego jumped in and drove me into terror, anxiety, depression or paralysis. Each time I was able to have presence enough to be with it and allow it to express itself, and it moved. And each time after I saw that it was all part of a process of allowing old beliefs to surface and seeing through them. It also helped that Ilona corrected my belief that after awakening all would be peaches once and for all – how soothing to know that all that is needed, is saying yes, or witnessing what happens when saying no/resisting. Writing this, there is a sense of clarity coming on, from 40 hours inside murkiness. I notice a strong sense of me inside that murkiness – but I do not believe in a separate me any longer. So not a problem.

I am grateful for Ilona’s start with me – and when my resistance became too heavy,then Chris7’s gentle and patient guidance did wonders – until his internet-connection became too bad to go on – and so I asked Ilona to do the last part with me. Its like a symphony with a strong first movement, the usual mellow 2 movement, and a dance into the 3 movement where light and dark can co-exist and dance until a harmonious climax has been reached.

Thank you from all of my heart

Please note that nothing written here is intended as medical advice. Readers who think that they need help with a physical or psychological condition are advised to seek a qualified opinion.

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